Subject: X12G TG2 12/97 Interim Minutes
M E M O R A N D U M
-------------------
TO: ANSI ASC X12G TG2 and TIGERS Attendees
FROM: Dan Cornwell
Illinois Department of Revenue
ASC X12G TG2 Secretary
DATE: January 7, 1998
SUBJECT: ANSI ASC X12G TG2/TIGERS Meeting Minutes
December 7 - 9, 1997 Houston, TX Interim Meeting
Enclosed are the minutes for the last meeting.
This information should also be available shortly on DISA's web site at http://www.disa.org. If you have any questions, my phone is 217 785-8798 or E-mail at "dcornwell@revenue.state.il.us".
************************************************************************
ASC X12G TG2 Tax Information Interchange Task Group and
Tax Information Group for EDI Requirements Standardization
(TIGERS) Interim Meeting
Houston, TX
12/7/97 - 12/9/97
Sunday December 7, 1997 - Tax Information Group for EDI Requirements Standardization (TIGERS)
---------------------------------------------------
The week's tentative agenda was presented by Terry Garber (SC) TG2 Chair. It included:
Sunday, December 7
1. Welcome and Agenda Review
2. April Meeting Planning
3. TIGERS
Guest Speaker
Motor Fuel Uniformity Report
4. X12G/TG2
EDIFACT Recasting TAXINF
Monday, December 8
1. TIGERS
Intro. to X12, TIGERS, Mapping
PET Update and Map Review
2. X12G/TG2
TS 154 Data Maintenance
TS 283 New Development
Tuesday, December 9
1. TIGERS
Property Maps: Georgia and Florida
TS 521 Implementation Guide
TS 540 Implementation Guide
TS 151 PBI Uniformity
Dan Cornwell (IL) had mentioned he had a TXP ACH/EFT issue he wanted to address and this was added to the agenda.
This interim meeting is being held in the same hotel where the FTA Motor Fuel Uniformity Committee/Electronic Reporting group and the Property Electronically Taxed (PET) group are meeting.
Jonathan Lyon (FTA) introduced Betty Zimmerman (Texaco) as this meeting's guest speaker on Electronic Commerce. Betty gave a presentation on EDI & Electronic Commerce - Connecting the Future. She pointed out that Electronic Commerce is not only impacting individual companies but entire industries, such as the Banking Industry utilizing Electronic Cash or Ecash on the Internet. She noted Mark Twain Bank was of the first to offer Electronic Cash. This enables purchasers to not have to give out credit card numbers.
She notes EDI is a part of the entire Electronic Commerce picture. EDI offers efficiency in data entry expenditures among others . Another benefit of EDI is it can improve business relationships.
Utilities are another industry utilizing Electronic Commerce for such things as bill review and payment. She said that the new buzz word is the "Virtual Corporation". This is a growing relationship with all of a company's trading partners. She emphasized the need for integration of Electronic Commerce, not only with EDI, but with shared databases, E-mail, etc., is growing dramatically.
She spoke on the American Petroleum Institute's "EDI and Electronic Commerce over the Internet" guide that was prepared. There was a growing perception that EDI is slow and hard to implement. This document was prepared to address this perception, and explain the impact of EDI over the Internet. She said EDI over the Internet requires EDI VAN functionality to be incorporated into the Internet.
Internet EDI can involve EDI via messaging, EDI via File Transfer Protocol or EDI Web to Web. In EDI via Messaging encryption must be utilized. Implementing encryption can prove to be complex in messaging. She noted encryption key management is an issue.
File Transfer Protocol also needs encryption utilization. A web server is required for this. The Gas Industry Standards Board has been working on Web to Web EDI for several years. They have a need for real-time EDI. This is an issue in making reservations for pipeline service. This method will be an exciting new way to do EDI over the Internet.
Object Oriented EDI was mentioned. The business models are where most of the time will be spent instead of mapping. The X12 Strategic Implementation Task Group is working on this now.
Extended Markup Language (XML) was mentioned. This allows new capabilities for EDI. It provides a standard framework/format to describe different types of data. This is so the information be it in a transaction, catalog or a document in a workflow, can be searched, decoded, manipulated, and displayed consistently and correctly by implementing EDI dictionaries. A scenario could be shopping for an item on the web. A program to search many different sites could be ran. This could be done by utilizing XML.
Betty concluded by saying new technologies are augmenting EDI, and X12 and EDIFACT will continue to be utilized as the data format. She noted the Internet will begin to replace company's traditional gateways.
* * * * * * * *
Next, Terry Garber passed out the EDIFACT recasting document work that has been prepared to date. Terry noted that our reason for doing the recasting work is to ensure we have control of the EDIFACT recasting rather than another country, thus ensuring the EDIFACT messages have all the functionality of the X12 transaction sets.
The "TIA functionality in EDIFACT" issue was brought up. At issue is to provide all the functionality in EDIFACT that the TIA segment in X12 does. EDIFACT utilizes far fewer segments which are very short and specific in structure. Terry said by speaking to peers, creating a new segment with combined data elements would be hard to get passed.
One solution is to utilize a segment group, similar to an X12 loop, headed by the LIN segment. This would have several segments which would provide the function of the single segment. One recommended approach would be to create dummy qualifiers meaning "tax data" for all the segments in the LIN loop . The LIN segment would have the actual qualifier for the line item on the tax form, with the remaining segments using the generic "dummy" qualifier to adhere to the standard rules. Terry Garber said she will run this concept past Bertha Maguire (retired IRS) who did the original EDIFACT recasting work.
The TAXINF document was reviewed. Terry Garber suggested that we move the MOA Monetary amount segment within the LIN Line Item loop and do not attempt to get a new NDS Numeric data segment created. This was discussed and the consensus was to do this. The CUX Currencies segment will be included for the EDIFACT message. Segment Group 1 will be modified slightly to cover the TIA functionality.
Segment Group 4 with the DOC Document/message details segment basically covers the TFS Tax Form loop. Terry suggested that the FTX Free text segment be removed from this loop because there is no X12 MSG Message Text segment in the 826 transaction set. Segment Group 5 will be changed to look like Segment Group 1. Segment groups 6,7,and 8 will remain as is. Segment Group 9 is the replacement for the X12 FGS Form Group loop. Segment Group 10 will be changed to look like Segment Group 1 (another TIA replacement), and Segment Group 11 will be changed to look like Segment Group 6, including the demographic information. Terry Garber will make the modifications discussed and present the TAXINF Tax Information Exchange Message to TG3 EDIFACT Migration Task Group for their comments.
Monday December 8, 1997 - EDI for Business Property Tax Session
---------------------------------------------------
Some of our TG2 members attended this session. The first presentation was from Tina Aguirre (Exxon). She gave a presentation on Electronic Data Interchange. She went into the basics of EDI and Electronic Commerce such as benefits, costs, and the future outlook.
Jonathan Lyon (FTA) gave a presentation on X12 and TIGERS. Jonathan noted that TIGERS is a group designed to standardize the implementation of EDI for tax applications. TIGERS is now working on publishing implementation models.
Terry Garber gave a presentation on Introduction to EDI and Mapping. Terry went into the EDI standards history and standards development process. Tax related EDI transaction sets were noted and a mapping overview was given.
After break, John Holzer (Exxon) opened the Property Electronically Taxed (PET) session and welcomed everyone. A number of speakers went into the background history of PET and the PET accomplishments to date. A presentation of the Texas pilot was given. Two Houston property taxpayers will send EDI 813 returns to Harris County in the upcoming weeks. The mapping of the returns to the 813 were discussed. Mappings have been done for Texas and Florida.
Monday December 8, 1997 - Tax Information Interchange
Development (TG2)
---------------------------------------------------
Ray Grimm (WI) gave an update on Motor Fuel EDI. An attempt will be made to consolidate the various individual mappings such as the distributor, terminal operator, carrier and supplier mappings. This work will possibly be presented at the next meeting in March or April. Stan Whaley (FL) will also work on this with Ray. For states where taxpayers could be required to file multiple returns, they could combine their filings. There could be one transmission covering multiple filings where the data requirements are identical. Ray Grimm reported that about 12 states are currently utilizing the "FTA's Motor Fuel Tax Section Uniformity Project Version: September l. '97" which contains the current mappings produced for uniformity. It also contains the uniformity TIA codes used for Motor Fuel.
A discussion was held on trying to have our TG2 Interim meeting concurrent with the DISA Annual Conference in April. This would allow states that are just getting into EDI to attend the DISA educational sessions and attend the TG2 sessions later in the week. A proposal would be to have TG2 on Wed. 4/1/98 p.m., all day Thursday 4/2/98 and Friday 4/3/98 a.m. This will depend on what DISA has scheduled for Wed. p.m. It was agreed that TG2/TIGERS would need to have two full days of sessions, however it would work out. Ray Grimm (WI) mentioned the Motor Fuel Uniformity Group would probably start participating in the TIGERS and TG2 sessions on a more regular basis.
* * * * * * * * *
Terry Garber passed out the proposed data maintenance forthe 154 Uniform Commercial Code Filing to be called the 154Secured Interest Filing. The purpose and scope will bemodified to be more generic for secured interest filing.Additional segments are requested to be added after the PIDProduct/Item Description segment at position 130. Theadditional segments are; TXI Tax Information, TAX TaxReference, CDS Case Description, and CED Court EventDescription. Additional codes are being requested forDE 128 Reference Identification Qualifier for AssessmentNumber, Warrant Number, Certificate Number, and Book.Additional codes are requested for DE 522 Amount QualifierCode for Release Amount, Partial Release Amount, Lien FilingFee, and Lien Release Fee. Codes for DE 640 TransactionType Code are requested for Lien Filing, Expungement ofPrior Filing, and Cancellation of Filing. The Work RequestForm will be changed to indicate this is the position of TG1and TG2.
Dan Cornwell (IL) passed out the revised Illinois Lienmappings. He also distributed the revised Californiamappings Laurie Rhea (CA) had sent him. Both had beenmodified to be in the standardized presentation format. Itwas suggested that we use "?" marks for codes that we arerequesting as data maintenance. This will be done. Danmentioned that Siroos Safaii (ID) had been in contact withhim and was working on their Lien mapping also. Dan willcorrect some typos. in the examples and use code "95" Full(Total) Release for BGN07 as appropriate. A question wasraised if states could release only part of a lien. This will be researched.
* * * * * * * * *
The 283 Tax or Fee Exemption was reviewed as it stands now.Jonathan Lyon (FTA) noted that Bob Shickora (NJ) has changedpositions and probably will not be attending the X12meetings. Jonathan noted that the external code list forthe 283 Tax or Fee Exemption may be maintained by theInstitute for Professionals in Taxation (IPT). Terry Garbersaid that we need to have this decided for the Februarymeeting. Jonathan Lyon said the FTA may not be the properkeeper of the code list. Terry Garber will contact membersof IPT to get input in validating the proposed newtransaction set package. This includes the standardsmaintenance to create the 283 and she will solicit theirparticipation in producing mapping examples. This needs tobe done soon so as not to lose the chance to make the next version/release of the standards.
Terry Garber went over the 283 transaction setdocumentation. She suggested we move the AMT MonetaryAmount and QTY Quantity segments from the Table 1 NM1 loopto below the DTM Date/Time Reference in the Table 2 TXI TaxInformation loop. The 1270 Code List Qual. Code and 1271Industry Code pair will be added as TXI11 and TXI12.Terry indicated we need to add several codes for the DE 963Tax Type Code. The group came up with these additions whichneed codes; Motor Fuel, Individual Income Tax, CorporateIncome Tax, Highway (Fuel) Use Tax and IFTA Tax . Terrythought the 963 Tax Type Code data maintenance should bemoved to the 154 data maintenance package. Additional taxcodes would be required for Tobacco, Severance, WithholdingTax , Alcohol Beverage Tax, Unemployment tax, EmploymentTax, Accommodations Tax, Tourism Tax, Gift Tax, InheritanceTax, Estate Tax, Coin Operated Amusement Tax, Ad ValoremTax, Real Property Tax, Personal Property Tax, Solid WasteTax, Workman Compensation Tax, and Transit Tax.
The 1321 Condition Indicator code values were discussed.Stan Farmer (MO) indicated that many of the YNQ questionsthat would have to be added to data element 1321 ConditionIndicator would really be reasons for exemptions. Theseshould be placed in the external code list referenced in1270 Code List Qualifier Code.
Tuesday December 9, 1997 - Tax Information Group for EDI
Requirements Standardization (TIGERS)
---------------------------------------------------
Our group was joined by some members of the Property Electronically Taxed (PET) group.
James Paradise (Vertex) presented the electronic returnmapping that has been developed for the Georgia propertytax. Some suggestions were offered by the group. The BTI09(DE 66) should use code "49" for State Identification Numberinstead "75" State Assigned. This will follow establishedTIGERS conventions. Some checking will be done for DTM01(DE 374) to see if a code exists for Business Start Date.It was suggested by Terry Garber (SC) the IN2 be used tocarry the Doing Business As information.
Terry Garber noted that the TIA06 should be used wherepercent figures are required. Jim will make the suggestedchanges to the Georgia mapping and to the Florida mapping.Jim agreed to present the mappings back to the group inFebruary. John Holzer (Exxon) suggested that Jim Paradisebe the scribe to maintain the TIA01 code values for PET.
* * * * * * * * *
Dan Cornwell (IL) gave a presentation of an issue that hascome up in Illinois regarding Electronic Funds Transfer(EFT) Sales Tax payments. Illinois has the need for twoadditional dollar amounts (Prior Overpayment, and CreditMemo Amount) to be conveyed with the payment information inthe Tax Payment (TXP) Addendum Format for ACH electronicpayments. Dan pointed out that there are two additionalqualifier/amount field pairs that are not currently used inthe TXP. With appropriate code values, these could be used.He also noted the EDI ASC X12 TXP Tax Payment segmentmirrors the TXP format used in the Addenda record of theNational Automated Clearing House Association (NACHA)electronic payment format. The difference is the X12 TXPuses an Alpha Numeric amount qualifier instead of an IDamount qualifier, so no X12 maintenance would be requiredfor additional codes.
Ray Grimm (WI) said he thought Wisconsin is doing somethingsimilar with some of their EFT payments. There wasconsensus that this is a valid use for the TXP. JonathanLyon (FTA) said the FTA maintains the codes for the TXPconvention and asked Dan to see what codes are currentlyused and request the additional ones through him. Dan willdo this.
* * * * * * * * *
Dan Cornwell next gave a presentation on the 151 PBIUniformity. Dan noted this issue has been around for sometime. He presented the 151 Electronic Filing of Tax ReturnData Acknowledgment similarity to the 824 Application Advicein their use. The 151 PBI Problem Identification segment isserving a similar function as the 824 TED Technical ErrorDescription segment. Further, the PBI01 element is servingthe same function as the TED01 element.
Dan noted that both 151 and 824 transactions sets are detailapplication acknowledgments for their respective incomingtransaction sets. He proposed that it is logical for us todevelop error codes that are similar to the TED01 errorcodes. He suggested errors could be short and direct indefinition as the TED01 errors are. One plus is the PBI01element is an AN type and would not require X12 datamaintenance to maintain codes. Codes could be maintained ina similar fashion as the TIA01 element codes are maintainedby a member of the group. Dan showed Illinois current PBI01codes and how they could use simplified, generic wording,facilitating use by other states. He said the PBI01 codelist would incorporate multiple tax types and state's needs.The list will of course have to accommodate specific needsbut should certainly be a smaller list than the TIA codelist which is tax, and to a some degree, state specific.
The group thought this was a good approach and worthwhile.Dan mentioned Lee Rife (MN) had faxed him some of their 151information. Some states Dan contacted have indicated theywill be using the 151, but are not doing EDI yet. Dan wasasked and agreed to continue developing and maintaining thelist. Additional states are requested to send their 151error code needs to Dan vial E-mail. If included as anattachment, please use text format. His address is"dcornwell@revenue.state.il.us".
* * * * * * * * *
A discussion on using the 540 Notice of Employment Statustransaction set took place. It was noted by Jonathan Lyon(FTA) that some states are going on with proprietaryformats, possibly because of not knowing the 540 evenexists.
* * * * * * * * *
Terry Garber questioned what we could do as a group toincrease the use of the 521 Income or Asset Offset, the 540,and 248 Account Assignment/Inquiry and Service Status.Terry suggested that we review the 521 Tutorial and get anychanges to Laurie Rhea (CA), so changes can be put in priorto the next Tri-mester meeting.
The meeting was adjourned until the February meeting in Anaheim, CA.